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    Responsive design - frameworks

    What are the best frameworks for responsive design.

     

    I'm using Bootstrap right now, as much for the widgets and modals as for the responsive classes but I'm finding I have to make quite a few media queries anyway.  Is there a better framework for responsive design or is this one of those elements of web work that don't lend itself to frameworks?

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    Mark Cicchetti - There are 10 kinds of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.
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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

    Lots of folks use StudioPress Genesis framework, it's well coded and well supported both by StudioPress and by third-party add-ons, and is issued under GPL It has built-in responsive features.

     

    Use that framework to build your own child theme or start from one of the many existing Genesis child themes.

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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

    I'm with you. I use ONLY Genesis. I have never needed to use a theme from any other system -- they are completely customizable, and I've been able to do anything I needed to do. At one point, they had some themes that were not mobile-responsive (a couple of years ago) but now just about everything is.

    They have a good forum on the site for members, so you can find answers to many questions.

    This site, https://sridharkatakam.com/, is run by a Genesis expert -- separately from Studio Press. He posts tutorials to do all sorts of things with Genesis themes. It is $10/month but VERY well-spent. I've found a number of answers and shortcuts here, that otherwise would have taken me much longer to do on my own.

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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

    Oh, my.  I didn't mean for Wordpress.  I totally mean for organic sites built from the ground up.  I often develop Wordpress sites but I try to avoid it if the client doesn't need access to edit content.  I know Wordpress is a very popular CMS and I'm probably going to get hammered for my opinion but I have a lot of issues with Wordpress.  Good SEO calls for page load time of less than 3 seconds and that's just not possible with most themes, five or ten plugins installed and on a shared server.

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    Mark Cicchetti - There are 10 kinds of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.
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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

    Well, many of my clients do want access to edit content, or to have a blog on their site. Just curious what your solution is if either of those requirements is key to the project? 

    I'm sure there is a big market for people who want to build sites "from the ground up" but somehow most of my clients are not those people -- possibly because I really focus on small local businesses and non-profits. 

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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

    @webdiva, I hear you and I applaud your working with the small businesses.  Most of my work is with small businesses or people who want to start an online business.  I think the difference is that you're a designer who also develops.  And I know a lot of developers who also design.  But for me, when it comes to design, I'm like the guy who gets boo'd off the stage at a karaoke bar.  Ah, but when it comes to development, that's what gets me excited.  I just love it!  I'll spend an hour bringing 30 lines of code down to 6 and then charge the client for half the time 'cause I feel guilty having so much fun and getting paid for it.

    I've done my share of yoga instructors and I prefer to work with small businesses as well.  I've heard too many horror stories about working for corporate america.  Do not want!

    On the other hand (can you tell I'm a Gemini?), I've spent two decades working up skills in Javascript, HTML, CSS, PHP and mySQL which is exactly what Wordpress is built on so when it comes to developing custom themes and plugins, I'm exactly suited for it.  When it comes to decisions on typography, optimal spacing or what shade of green exactly suits that shade of orange... not so much.

    But we're getting way off topic here.  The original question was about CSS frameworks for responsive sites.

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    Mark Cicchetti - There are 10 kinds of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.
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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

    But really, ALL of this is relevant in terms of understanding who we are, and the different paths we took to get here -- because we can learn from each other (and boy, I'm already learning so much here). I do like the development work, but in the end, the part that gets ME most excited is the business/strategy/process end of it. And I too often find that I have more business experience than my clients, so wind up helping them with marketing, messaging, understanding their audience, organizing the content, and so on (can you tell I'm a Virgo?). The website is a great communication tool -- but first you gotta have something relevant to say!

    I realize that many people are not designers AND developers -- those can be very different skillsets. When I was in high school (early 70's) I wanted to be a writer and artist, and I was decent at both. But my parents (and others) insisted that would be a hard way to make a decent living. On the other hand, I was told I was "pretty good at math for a girl" and encouraged to go into technology. Helps that I grew up in Silicon Valley and my father was an engineer. So I got degrees in EE and CS, and worked in Corporate America working in engineering, quality, and IT at places like HP. And by the mid-90's when websites were becoming a thing... I was in IT management and suddenly was managing website stuff. And POOF! Magicaly there was a job that incorporated programming, writing, AND graphic design! It was a no-brainer for me to head in that direction, and now I have a job doing all of those things.

    Of course there are many developers who do NOT consider themselves writers or artists. They are brilliant at building anything they have a spec for, but may not be that happy about ghost-writing content for clients, or coming up with color palettes, or helping them with strategy. And I really enjoy that part (and that's how I came to write the book, which has nothing to do with technology, and everything to do with business/strategy/process).

    @D3, you nailed it re: feeling guilty for having so much fun and getting paid. I feel that way pretty often.

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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

    Oh, but I am an artist!

    Let me 'splain.

    My wife paints.

    She makes art through color, shape and perspective.

    I make art through program flow and the relationship of requirement to solution.

    She paints her pictures using brushes and sponges.

    I paint a logical picture using loops and branches.

    Before she ever sets brush to canvas, she thinks about what she's going to paint.  She has a picture in her mind of what it will look like.

    Before I ever tap the first key, I stare at my 'puter screen and create a picture in my mind. A logical picture rather than a colorful picture but a mental construct all the same.

    Final test: when she's in her painting chair, I have to practically throw something at her to get her attention.

    When I'm in my office, the house could be burning down around me and I wouldn't notice till my screen went dark.

    I'm a writer too.  When a ghost writer sets about writing an article, they'll use words to get a point across. To cause a change in someones outlook or behaviour.

    Programming is like talking to a child using small words and trying to be as clear as possible.  Actually, it's worse than talking to a child.  At least a child has the ability to reason.  Computers are plain dumb.  No computer ever did anything a human didn't tell them how to do.

    When I set about writing a program, I'm intent on causing a particular behaviour.

    It's interesting that both Virgo and Gemini are ruled by Mercury.  All about communication and technology.

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    Mark Cicchetti - There are 10 kinds of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.
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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

    Touche, @D3!

    I stand corrected! I did not mean to offend you in any way -- you are definitely an artist and a writer. But I think you know what I meant... maybe I should have used a term such as "graphic designer"???? 

    And I'm pretty sure that even though you are quite skilled in writing CODE, when people say "writer" they are usually thinking about those who write for public consumption (customer-facing content, books, short stories, articles, what-not).

    But in any case, point well-taken, and I will be sure not to make that lame-brained mistake again ;-)

     

    And in related news, when people ask if I speak other languages, if I'm being a smart-a**, I will reel off a list re: HTML, PHP, and so on -- even if I knew what they meant. My high-school Spanish is pretty rusty after all these years. Come to think of it, same goes for many of the languages I learned in college, such as Pascal, LISP, and COBOL

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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

    Please excuse me if I came across as being offended.  I'm not, not at all.  In fact, I'm enjoying the conversation immensely even if it is (wildly) off topic.

    Ok, the writer part might have been a stretch but you've got to admit, the artist part works.  At least, I feel like it does.  I'm also a musician which is considered a form of art.  I get the same meditative state playing the native american flute as I do programming, that's how I know.  It's just that programming hasn't been around for 10s of thousands of years like painting so it isn't really recognized as art even by the people who practice it.  I saw a question on Quora a few weeks ago; "How many lines of code can a good programmer write in an hour?"  Missing the point entirely.  The best programmers get the same output with the fewest lines of code.

    It's like I keep telling people, geeks are the new cowboys.  Back in the days of wooden ships and sails (so I've heard), it was great to have someone around that could rope and ride, mend a fence, was handy with a six-gun and didn't mind sleeping out under the stars now and then.  These days, it's nice to have someone around who can program your DVR or set up your email on your iPhone.

    Just so, some programmers are Rembrandts, some paint by numbers (and some, trust me, are more like Dali!).  Some, I can only liken to Escher.

    COBOL?  Really?  I much prefer FORTRAN and RPG (speaking of dead languages).  Hey, don't try that when you're trying to get a passport.  No sense of humor.

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    Mark Cicchetti - There are 10 kinds of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.
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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

    Throwing back to the original post... Smiley Wink

    I used to be a diehard fan of Skeleton. Unfortunately their specs aren't a great fit for the modern web.

    I've heard great things about ZURB's Foundation, though I haven't used it in ages.

    As of late I've been thinking that a lot of frameworks are overly opinionated. While that's great for building an app MVP, it's not so great for building something like a WordPress theme that'll transition into production-ready code.


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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks


    andymci wrote:

    Throwing back to the original post... Smiley Wink

    I used to be a diehard fan of Skeleton. Unfortunately their specs aren't a great fit for the modern web.

    I've heard great things about ZURB's Foundation, though I haven't used it in ages.

    As of late I've been thinking that a lot of frameworks are overly opinionated. While that's great for building an app MVP, it's not so great for building something like a WordPress theme that'll transition into production-ready code.


    Well, when it comes to Wordpress... I also program for Wordpress.  It's not an automatic thing for me and I often find myself working in other environments like eCommerce shopping carts built on templates or membership sites where the content is static and organic.  I've seen way too many sites that try to force Wordpress to do something it wasn't designed for.  Kind of like trying to pound an icosahedron through a round hole (D&D anyone?).  It still has it's roots as blogging software although if you get into the guts of it, extreme customization is possible.

    The reason I ask about frameworks is when I'm coding an organic site, I still want to knock out pages in a timely manner and since about a year ago when Google made mobile friendliness a ranking factor, it has become important that the pages generated be optimized for mobile.  I've been using Bootstrap but I'll take a look at skeleton and foundation.  Thanks for the tip!

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    Mark Cicchetti - There are 10 kinds of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.
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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

    The reason I ask about frameworks is when I'm coding an organic site, I still want to knock out pages in a timely manner and since about a year ago when Google made mobile friendliness a ranking factor, it has become important that the pages generated be optimized for mobile.

    Another resource that may help you out: Pure.css

     

    It's not a framework like Bootstrap or Foundation. They brand themselves as "small, responsive CSS modules". But if you're looking for something lightweight and mobile-friendly, it may be a good fit.


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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

    pure.css... I like it.  It's lightweight, doesn't try to do too much and has a nice little interface for splitting the landscape into your own fractions.  I'm going to take it out for a test drive, kick the tires a time or two.  Thanks @andymci!

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    Mark Cicchetti - There are 10 kinds of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.
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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

    So how did that framework work out @D3? I do believe there are very different perspectives when it comes to frameworks. It comes down to how you wish to specialize as getting invovled into a framework really means starting each site from a similar starting point. Many budgets cannot afford that.

     

    But you really do have to stop to wonder: After you are done with your work of art, can someone else extract value for a long time from that work? Websites are fluid and must change to reflect the business, the owner. Websites that require intervention from the creator are in my mind, not business friendly.



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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

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    madonamurfy
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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

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    Re: Responsive design - frameworks

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